[Community_garden] Horse Hockey

[Mike McGrath]

BTK is engineered into the seed of crops attacked by moths (corn, for 
instance is a big one)

BTT is engineered into potatoes to defeat Colo. potato beetles.

These uses breed resistance and weaken the true, safe use of these naturally 
occurring soil organisms by organic farmers.

I despise GE crops, but again, I can't think of any way they would make 
horse poopie bad to use. (The worst thing about HP is its tendency to 
include lots of viable weed seeds from the pasture.)
    Of course, all manure MUST (not 'should be'; MUST) be well-composted 
(look and smell like soil) before use in a food garden.

                                                ---McG

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Sarah Alexander" <salexander at communitygarden.org>
To: <community_garden at list.communitygarden.org>
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 3:30 PM
Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Herbicide in Manure


> Hello, just a quick addition to the conversation.  In addition to the
> round up ready varieties, which allow for the massive application of
> the herbicide round-up, there are also crops that have pesticides (BT
> or Bacillus thuringiensis) genetically engineered into them. The
> crops include corn, cotton, potatoes and possibly soy.  This is the
> same BT that can be used by organic gardeners for pest control, and
> its use in Genetically engineered crops is problematic on many
> levels.  I don't know if any research has been done to show whether
> or not there is residue of the pesticide that make it through the
> digestive tract of animals.  It is likely that any commercial, non-
> organic horsefeed would include one or more of the mentioned GE
> crops, considering these crops represent a majority of what is grown.
>
> In terms of the compost..it's probably best to make sure that it's
> been thoroughly composted at high enough temperatures to kill any
> bacteria or undigested potentially gmo seed, and then let your
> gardeners know that it is not organic, and that it could contain
> herbicide and pesticide residue, and to do some of their own plant
> tests first before using it in their gardens.
>
> -Sarah Alexander
>
>
> On Apr 27, 2007, at 3:01 PM, Mike McGrath wrote:
>
>> I think you're misunderstanding how these GM crops work.
>>     The only herbicide involvement I know of in the Frankenfood
>> world is the
>> "Round-up Ready" gene. This is bred into corn, cotton, and especially
>> soybeans to make them super-resistant to that nasty frog killing
>> herbicide,
>> allowing the fields to be soaked with vast amounts of Round-Up--at
>> levels
>> that would wipe out a 'normal' crop (or any non Round-up Ready plant).
>>     No herbicide is actually bred into crops; that wouldn't make
>> any sense.
>> (Not that GM crops make sense, but...)
>>
>>                                         ---Science Geek McG
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: <gordonse at one.net>
>> To: <community_garden at list.communitygarden.org>
>> Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 1:42 PM
>> Subject: [Community_garden] Herbicide in Manure
>>
>>
>>> We have a tricky situation here and would appreciate any advice.
>>>
>>> Our gardens have access to a horse manure source again.  In the
>>> past we
>>> have read of animals being fed herbicide treated gmo grains as
>>> part of
>>> their diet.  The herbicide on the grains makes it through the
>>> animal and
>>> into the manure.  The herbicide also survives the usual composting
>>> process.
>>>
>>> We  would like to use the composted horse manure if we can, so we
>>> asked
>>> the horse farm if there are gmo grains in the grain blend they
>>> feed their
>>> horses as a treat.  (Horses are mostly on pasture.)  The horse
>>> farm didn't
>>> know, but gave me the name of their supplier.  The supplier didn't
>>> know
>>> and said they would have the people that blended their horse feed
>>> mix call
>>> me.  In the meanwhile we have waited two more weeks for an
>>> answer.  (Will
>>> follow up as necessary.)
>>>
>>> Here I should probably note that we have a mix of gardeners on the
>>> gardening organic spectrum.  Many won't be using the composted manure
>>> since it's not organic.  Others will use it if it "just" has
>>> pesticide
>>> residue and not herbicide residue as they spray their own garden
>>> food with
>>> pesticide.  Some don't mind the herbicide if it's no longer active
>>> as they
>>> spray herbicides on their own food gardens.  However no one wants
>>> to use
>>> it on their food beds or rows if it still contains some active
>>> herbicides.
>>>
>>> If we can't get an answer or it turns out that there is gmo feed
>>> in the
>>> mix, we have several questions:
>>> 1) Is there a likely state group who can test for herbicides in
>>> the manure
>>> for free or frugally?  (Have already asked master gardeners and they
>>> didn't know)
>>> 2) Is there a national testing service that is good and frugal?
>>> 3) Is there a canary type test we could use in the garden such as
>>> growing
>>> a highly sensitive plant in a mix of our soil and the composted
>>> manure?
>>> If so what soil-manure ratio should we use and which annual vegetable
>>> plants are the most sensitive to the herbicides?
>>> 4) If it does contain active herbicide residue, how much
>>> additional or
>>> total composting time is it likely to take to break down all the
>>> herbicide?
>>>
>>> Sharon
>>> gordonse at one.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
>>
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>
> Programs Manager
> American Community Gardening Association
> salexander at communitygarden.org
> 614.645.1536 (phone)
> 614.645.5921 (fax)
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