[Community_garden] Stakhanovite Cuban Green Revolution?
adam36055 at aol.com
adam36055 at aol.com
Sun Jan 14 01:48:29 EST 2007
Steven,
With the American embargo lifted, and with foreign investment from the USA permitted, even the staunchest anti-Castro/Raul Cubans would be lined up to invest, for starters in the vuelta abajo (lower Delta) tobacco growing region, and in areas where many have old pre-revolution property deeds abrogated by the Revolution.
And yes, the country is still hungry - I have a neighbor here in NY who sends food packages to relatives on a bi-weekly basis - she's old, and I schlepp them to the Post Office.
So yes, I do certainly believe that substantial gains in organic gardening methods have developed in Cuba. However, some of the claims made by the current government ( and their supporters) seem to be a trifle Stakhanovite. ( FYI: Stakhanov was a worker touted by Stalin's propaganda organs to have been an epically hardworking and productive worker - sort of like John Henry on serious steriods. Seemingly remarkable feats of production in socialist command economies are called Stakhanovite.)
Best wishes,
Adam Honigman
gardener and former lover of Cigars from the Vuelta Abajo.
-----Original Message-----
From: geografood at yahoo.com
To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 9:44 PM
Subject: [Community_garden] Cuban Green Revolution
Deborah,
Just a clarification.....our cutting off aid and trade to Cuba had much less
effect in creating their sustainable agriculture revolution than did the
collapse of the Soviet Union. We cut them off over 40 years ago. The USSR
provided cheap oil and industrial agricultural inputs until about 1991, then
Cuba was forced to adapt - quickly. Having a command and control economy, 11% of
Latin America's scientists, and massive joblessness made their Green Revolution
possible. Also, bear in mind that many Cubans still do not get enough to eat. It
is an extremely poor country.
Being a part-time cynic, I suspect that if the American embargo were lifted they
would regress back to industrial ag methods (despite their revolutionary
rhetoric), especially with rice, sugar cane and tobacco production. And if
increased trade improved the economy, e.g., created jobs, then most folks would
likely stop growing their own food since they would have less time to garden and
more money to buy food.
This is heresy on this list - I know - but there it is.
Steven
Deborah Mills <landscapediva at sbcglobal.net> wrote: Mike,
I agree with you...we are revisiting the second "Green Revolution" in our
life time. The first was with the advent of DDT (where they use to advertise
it in TV commercials...DDT is good for you and me...)
I strongly feel (this is my opinion) that until world government changes the
"have and have not's" will always be kept separately. Until leaders change
their policies there shall always be world hunger regardless of how many
seeds there are in the world.
We did the biggest favor to Cuba by cutting them off years agao....they are
truly a part of the Green Revolution with-out the assistance from us.
That's what I like about this list server....we all (sometimes) agree to
disagree.
All my best,
Deborah Mills
> Disagree.
> This phony 'Green Revolution' #$%^ requires the yearly purchase of
> seed--at-least hybrid and perhaps GMed seed--and lots of chemical inputs.
> The real answer to world hunger is a combination of sensible population
> control (especially with lots of old farts like me trying to live forever)
> and home gardens that grow local, adaptable, seed-savable crops.
>
> And they make Roundup.
>
> But I like you, Adam--so I'll tell ya what: Let's
> settle on Beelzebub and call it even.
>
> ---McG
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: adam36055 at aol.com
> To: MikeMcG at PTD.net ; ecojunky at hotmail.com ;
> community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:02 PM
> Subject: Re Monsanto: Giving the "Devil" his Due
>
>
> Mike et al,
>
> As an organic gardener, I'm not enamoured with genetically modified
> anything, largely because of the "you never know the consequences of some
> scientist's gene splice and the idea of patented life forms is really so
> sci-fi" factor, but as you know, seedsmen have been hybridizing for
> years, using traditional methods.
>
> Asparagus, as we know it, was originally a grass and the work done with
> the original Mexican Dahlias, and all of the plant varieties we grow
> organically, via the old methods shows the work of thousands of human
> minds working with the material of nature. Humans playing with the
> handiwork of God, albeit organically.
>
> Having looked the Devil in the face more than a few times in my life I
> feel that Monsanto, as a huge multi-national may not qualify for the
> category of high-class demonization, i.e., "The Devil". Maybe not even
> the minor demonization of the C.S.Lewis "Scratchtape," variety.
>
> Monsanto is a large multi-national company that sells genetically
> modified seeds that may work for ill ( as many of us feel, including me)
> or may fool us all as the kind of product that may feed millions in a
> world increasingly short of water and arable land.
>
> And, with the way that all of us right thinking organic folks have been
> banging their gongs, Monsanto has (oh, I know this will start a storm of
> controversy) actually been doing some good on a national and international
> basis -
>
> For real.
>
> Please go to Monsanto.com ( this lousy computer at work won't let me cut
> and paste the link) and look at some of their foreign and local
> initiatives - some of it is propaganda, I mean, it "is" their website, but
> look at it with a little bit of care. There is some real good being done -
>
> Again, I've seen the devil's face more than a few times in my life, as
> have most of you. We may choose not to use their seeds ( I don't) but I
> keep demonizing for real devils - like the one I see in the mirror, every
> day.
>
> Your pal,
>
> Adam Honigman, also known as....
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: MikeMcG at PTD.net
> To: ecojunky at hotmail.com; community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
> Sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:00 AM
> Subject: [Community_garden] Seeds of Change = 3 Musketeers?
>
>
> Hey Dave--
> Howie Shapiro, who has some fancy VP title these days, is also an old
> friend of mine, like the folks at Burpee (David T of J.L. Hudson too; and
> I
> tried to be friends with Johnny's Rob Johnston but he wouldn't have me!)
> Anyway, yes, the M & M Mars thing is very true. I was in touch with
> Howie a lot around that time. If I recall correctly, a young member of the
> M
> & M family was big into organics and saving the earth and loved SoC (who
> wouldn't?). He approached them and over time they agreed to a deal that
> gave
> them a big infusion of much needed cash, better retail distribution and
> access to all kinds of basic good business advice. And the mission not to
> change anything on their end.
> Other than prettier packages and catalogs, SoC hasn't changed a
> bit--but
> the reverse can't be said; Howie has been over in the rain forests busily
> working on organic chocolate production!
> Best, McG
>
> PS: But Monsanto IS The Devil.
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Thomas"
> To:
> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:05 PM
> Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Seed List and Regionally Specific Seeds
>
>
>> about that seed list...
>>
>> i've been playing catch-up and have read the past couple weeks of
>> listserv
>> digests in the last hour or two and wanted to make a couple comments with
>> respect to this seed thread that seems to have been "all the rage" these
>> past few days.
>>
>> Seeds of Change, i believe, is owned by M&M/Mars corp. don't think that
>> was
>> mentioned and thought it may be of interest to folks. it is also
>> possible
>> that this info is out of date.
>>
>> source: corporganics.org
>>
>> i have little experience with burpee or soc. mostly have dealt with
>> fedco,
>> johnny's, renee's, bountiful gardens, territorial, seed savers
>> exchange...
>> i would probably favor territorial currently, living in nw oregon as i
>> do.
>>
>> with respect to regional specificity (not sure who originally posted the
>> inquiry, but i recall them wondering specifically about "soil type"):
>>
>> i would say soil type would be less of a concern than other climatic
>> variables (humidity, temperature, rainfall) due to the fact that a lot
>> can
>> be done to amend the soil (and make up for lack of rain via irrigation,
>> for
>> that matter - more difficult to deal with too much rain), thereby
>> changing
>> physical and chemical properties of a native soil.
>>
>> although i haven't been here long, i'm told seeds originating from the UK
>> perform well here in the pacific northwest due to a similar maritime
>> influence (rainy, temperate, etc.) i imagine seeds originating from the
>> mediterranean would do well in southern california, etc.
>>
>> as has been mentioned, matching microclimates and finding gardeners who
>> have
>> been saving seed in your area for a while (and ultimately saving your own
>> seed) would be ideal.
>>
>> dave
>> portland, or
>>
>> (an urban gardener and sometime small-scale commercial farmer with a lot
>> to
>> learn)
>>
>>
>> ---------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:36:10 -0800 (PST)
>> From: Don Boekelheide
>> Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Burpee
>> To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>>
>> Thanks, Mike, for the Burpee inside story.
>>
>> Guess we need to put Burpee back on our list...
>>
>> Don Boekelheide
>> Charlotte NC
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
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>>
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>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> out
> how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
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_______________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's
services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out
how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Steven Garrett, PhC, MS, RD
Ph.D. Candidate, Social and Environmental Geography
University of Washington and
Nutrition Education Evaluation Specialist
Washington State University
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The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's
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how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
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