[Community_garden] Stakhanovite Cuban Green Revolution?
Deborah Mills
landscapediva at sbcglobal.net
Sun Jan 14 06:11:39 EST 2007
Boy did that arrow miss the target....That's my whole point that I feel is
being missed.
If Cuba is the only example (and the best one for the moment) of being
"Green" then what do we really have? I feel they made strides where no one
else did but the fact remains there are the hungry, I never said they were
perfect and everything was coming up roses. And yes sadly enough if the
embargo was lifted they would have the pie in the sky attitude and coming
running back and they would become like all walking bi-peds or shall I say
sheep and follow the lead of good advertising. THERE IS NO GREEN REVOLUTION
FOLKS, unless we choose to make it for ourselves. Step by step, bit by bit.
Everywhere, anywhere you look. I can walk out onto the street tomorrow and
find someone in our wonderful land called America and find a soul who is in
need. I used Cuba as an illustration...and the only consensus I get is "yes
we cut them off 40 years ago"...and your point being what? Would they be
better off if we didn't cut them off? My point is they had to be
resourceful, maybe not perfect, but resourceful and it is the closest thing
we do have as a green revolution.
I go back to my original statement, it is the government, not gardening for
lack of food. It is the haves and not the have not's. It's the powers to be
not lack of seeds or upcoming technology. It's about being human and nothing
more. And those who hold the "cash" are "king". It all depends where you
place your value and I am sure you can tell which side of the fence I am on.
I feel Monsanto, like any big conglomerate is developing seeds that need
high chemical input in order to sustain themselves plus seed saving can not
be done. This makes the grower dependant on always going back to the source
to replenish their stock and their chemical sheds. Maybe today it is
affordable but what is to say the price doesn't go up once they have a foot
hold into the market? Kind of like what is going on with the price of gas
these days (just another example folks, not a topic to be focused on) This
does not make them independent in any sense of the word and give them the
freedom to grow all the food in the world to save the hungry. Do you really
think that Monsanto, this huge corporation is only in it for the good of
mankind? I'm not buying it...That's a crock.....
Deborah
----- Original Message -----
From: <adam36055 at aol.com>
To: <sgarrett at u.washington.edu>; <community_garden at list.communitygarden.org>
Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 10:48 PM
Subject: [Community_garden] Stakhanovite Cuban Green Revolution?
> Steven,
>
> With the American embargo lifted, and with foreign investment from the USA
> permitted, even the staunchest anti-Castro/Raul Cubans would be lined up
> to invest, for starters in the vuelta abajo (lower Delta) tobacco growing
> region, and in areas where many have old pre-revolution property deeds
> abrogated by the Revolution.
>
> And yes, the country is still hungry - I have a neighbor here in NY who
> sends food packages to relatives on a bi-weekly basis - she's old, and I
> schlepp them to the Post Office.
>
> So yes, I do certainly believe that substantial gains in organic gardening
> methods have developed in Cuba. However, some of the claims made by the
> current government ( and their supporters) seem to be a trifle
> Stakhanovite. ( FYI: Stakhanov was a worker touted by Stalin's propaganda
> organs to have been an epically hardworking and productive worker - sort
> of like John Henry on serious steriods. Seemingly remarkable feats of
> production in socialist command economies are called Stakhanovite.)
>
> Best wishes,
> Adam Honigman
> gardener and former lover of Cigars from the Vuelta Abajo.
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: geografood at yahoo.com
> To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
> Sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 9:44 PM
> Subject: [Community_garden] Cuban Green Revolution
>
>
> Deborah,
> Just a clarification.....our cutting off aid and trade to Cuba had much
> less
> effect in creating their sustainable agriculture revolution than did the
> collapse of the Soviet Union. We cut them off over 40 years ago. The USSR
> provided cheap oil and industrial agricultural inputs until about 1991,
> then
> Cuba was forced to adapt - quickly. Having a command and control economy,
> 11% of
> Latin America's scientists, and massive joblessness made their Green
> Revolution
> possible. Also, bear in mind that many Cubans still do not get enough to
> eat. It
> is an extremely poor country.
>
> Being a part-time cynic, I suspect that if the American embargo were
> lifted they
> would regress back to industrial ag methods (despite their revolutionary
> rhetoric), especially with rice, sugar cane and tobacco production. And if
> increased trade improved the economy, e.g., created jobs, then most folks
> would
> likely stop growing their own food since they would have less time to
> garden and
> more money to buy food.
>
> This is heresy on this list - I know - but there it is.
> Steven
>
> Deborah Mills <landscapediva at sbcglobal.net> wrote: Mike,
>
> I agree with you...we are revisiting the second "Green Revolution" in our
> life time. The first was with the advent of DDT (where they use to
> advertise
> it in TV commercials...DDT is good for you and me...)
>
> I strongly feel (this is my opinion) that until world government changes
> the
> "have and have not's" will always be kept separately. Until leaders change
> their policies there shall always be world hunger regardless of how many
> seeds there are in the world.
>
> We did the biggest favor to Cuba by cutting them off years agao....they
> are
> truly a part of the Green Revolution with-out the assistance from us.
>
> That's what I like about this list server....we all (sometimes) agree to
> disagree.
>
> All my best,
> Deborah Mills
>
>
>> Disagree.
>> This phony 'Green Revolution' #$%^ requires the yearly purchase of
>> seed--at-least hybrid and perhaps GMed seed--and lots of chemical inputs.
>> The real answer to world hunger is a combination of sensible
>> population
>> control (especially with lots of old farts like me trying to live
>> forever)
>> and home gardens that grow local, adaptable, seed-savable crops.
>>
>> And they make Roundup.
>>
>> But I like you, Adam--so I'll tell ya what: Let's
>> settle on Beelzebub and call it even.
>>
>> ---McG
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: adam36055 at aol.com
>> To: MikeMcG at PTD.net ; ecojunky at hotmail.com ;
>> community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>> Sent: Saturday, January 13, 2007 3:02 PM
>> Subject: Re Monsanto: Giving the "Devil" his Due
>>
>>
>> Mike et al,
>>
>> As an organic gardener, I'm not enamoured with genetically modified
>> anything, largely because of the "you never know the consequences of some
>> scientist's gene splice and the idea of patented life forms is really so
>> sci-fi" factor, but as you know, seedsmen have been hybridizing for
>> years, using traditional methods.
>>
>> Asparagus, as we know it, was originally a grass and the work done with
>> the original Mexican Dahlias, and all of the plant varieties we grow
>> organically, via the old methods shows the work of thousands of human
>> minds working with the material of nature. Humans playing with the
>> handiwork of God, albeit organically.
>>
>> Having looked the Devil in the face more than a few times in my life I
>> feel that Monsanto, as a huge multi-national may not qualify for the
>> category of high-class demonization, i.e., "The Devil". Maybe not even
>> the minor demonization of the C.S.Lewis "Scratchtape," variety.
>>
>> Monsanto is a large multi-national company that sells genetically
>> modified seeds that may work for ill ( as many of us feel, including me)
>> or may fool us all as the kind of product that may feed millions in a
>> world increasingly short of water and arable land.
>>
>> And, with the way that all of us right thinking organic folks have been
>> banging their gongs, Monsanto has (oh, I know this will start a storm of
>> controversy) actually been doing some good on a national and
>> international
>> basis -
>>
>> For real.
>>
>> Please go to Monsanto.com ( this lousy computer at work won't let me cut
>> and paste the link) and look at some of their foreign and local
>> initiatives - some of it is propaganda, I mean, it "is" their website,
>> but
>> look at it with a little bit of care. There is some real good being
>> done -
>>
>> Again, I've seen the devil's face more than a few times in my life, as
>> have most of you. We may choose not to use their seeds ( I don't) but I
>> keep demonizing for real devils - like the one I see in the mirror, every
>> day.
>>
>> Your pal,
>>
>> Adam Honigman, also known as....
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: MikeMcG at PTD.net
>> To: ecojunky at hotmail.com; community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>> Sent: Sat, 13 Jan 2007 10:00 AM
>> Subject: [Community_garden] Seeds of Change = 3 Musketeers?
>>
>>
>> Hey Dave--
>> Howie Shapiro, who has some fancy VP title these days, is also an old
>> friend of mine, like the folks at Burpee (David T of J.L. Hudson too; and
>> I
>> tried to be friends with Johnny's Rob Johnston but he wouldn't have me!)
>> Anyway, yes, the M & M Mars thing is very true. I was in touch with
>> Howie a lot around that time. If I recall correctly, a young member of
>> the
>> M
>> & M family was big into organics and saving the earth and loved SoC (who
>> wouldn't?). He approached them and over time they agreed to a deal that
>> gave
>> them a big infusion of much needed cash, better retail distribution and
>> access to all kinds of basic good business advice. And the mission not to
>> change anything on their end.
>> Other than prettier packages and catalogs, SoC hasn't changed a
>> bit--but
>> the reverse can't be said; Howie has been over in the rain forests busily
>> working on organic chocolate production!
>> Best, McG
>>
>> PS: But Monsanto IS The Devil.
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "David Thomas"
>> To:
>> Sent: Friday, January 12, 2007 9:05 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Seed List and Regionally Specific Seeds
>>
>>
>>> about that seed list...
>>>
>>> i've been playing catch-up and have read the past couple weeks of
>>> listserv
>>> digests in the last hour or two and wanted to make a couple comments
>>> with
>>> respect to this seed thread that seems to have been "all the rage" these
>>> past few days.
>>>
>>> Seeds of Change, i believe, is owned by M&M/Mars corp. don't think that
>>> was
>>> mentioned and thought it may be of interest to folks. it is also
>>> possible
>>> that this info is out of date.
>>>
>>> source: corporganics.org
>>>
>>> i have little experience with burpee or soc. mostly have dealt with
>>> fedco,
>>> johnny's, renee's, bountiful gardens, territorial, seed savers
>>> exchange...
>>> i would probably favor territorial currently, living in nw oregon as i
>>> do.
>>>
>>> with respect to regional specificity (not sure who originally posted the
>>> inquiry, but i recall them wondering specifically about "soil type"):
>>>
>>> i would say soil type would be less of a concern than other climatic
>>> variables (humidity, temperature, rainfall) due to the fact that a lot
>>> can
>>> be done to amend the soil (and make up for lack of rain via irrigation,
>>> for
>>> that matter - more difficult to deal with too much rain), thereby
>>> changing
>>> physical and chemical properties of a native soil.
>>>
>>> although i haven't been here long, i'm told seeds originating from the
>>> UK
>>> perform well here in the pacific northwest due to a similar maritime
>>> influence (rainy, temperate, etc.) i imagine seeds originating from the
>>> mediterranean would do well in southern california, etc.
>>>
>>> as has been mentioned, matching microclimates and finding gardeners who
>>> have
>>> been saving seed in your area for a while (and ultimately saving your
>>> own
>>> seed) would be ideal.
>>>
>>> dave
>>> portland, or
>>>
>>> (an urban gardener and sometime small-scale commercial farmer with a lot
>>> to
>>> learn)
>>>
>>>
>>> ---------------------------------
>>>
>>> Message: 2
>>> Date: Thu, 11 Jan 2007 13:36:10 -0800 (PST)
>>> From: Don Boekelheide
>>> Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Burpee
>>> To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>>>
>>> Thanks, Mike, for the Burpee inside story.
>>>
>>> Guess we need to put Burpee back on our list...
>>>
>>> Don Boekelheide
>>> Charlotte NC
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
>>> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and
>>> to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>>>
>>> To post an e-mail to the list:
>>> community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>>>
>>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
>>> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
>> ACGA's
>> services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find
>> out
>> how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>>
>> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
>> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and
>> security
>> tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the
>> web,
>> free AOL Mail and more.
>> -------------- next part --------------
>> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
>> URL:
>> http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20070113/e477c381/attachment.html
>> _______________________________________________
>> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
>> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and
>> to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>>
>> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>>
>> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
>> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
>>
>>
>> --
>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
>> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007
>>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
> ACGA's
> services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find
> out
> how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
>
>
>
> Steven Garrett, PhC, MS, RD
> Ph.D. Candidate, Social and Environmental Geography
> University of Washington and
> Nutrition Education Evaluation Specialist
> Washington State University
>
> ---------------------------------
> Get your own web address.
> Have a HUGE year through Yahoo! Small Business.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20070113/f14c419d/attachment.html
>
> _______________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
> ACGA's
> services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find
> out
> how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
> ________________________________________________________________________
> Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security
> tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web,
> free AOL Mail and more.
> -------------- next part --------------
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
> URL:
> http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20070114/21dca7c0/attachment.html
> _______________________________________________
> The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
> ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and
> to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
>
> To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>
> To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
> http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.16.9/622 - Release Date: 1/10/2007
>
More information about the Community_garden
mailing list