[Community_garden] Saving seeds and poison ivy
Don Boekelheide
dboekelheide at yahoo.com
Wed Jan 2 23:56:44 EST 2008
(No, not at the same time...)
I don't usually save cucurbits, since I have to grow them too close together and they sure as heck do cross-pollinate. On the other hand, sounds like you had good isolation on those pumpkins - now, I can't find your post, though! Saving/recreating locally adapted varieties is very important work that simply won't happen at land grant universities (except for your occasional enlightened prof or fearless student), and besides it is great fun.
So, go for it!
Beans make ideal candidates for seed saving. My favorite pro on this David Bradshaw, who just retired from Clemson University and who started South Carolina Foundation Seed, www.clemson.edu/seed. Now, there's an enlightened prof if there ever was one!
Personally, my seed saving focus is currently tomatoes, which are also easy, and flowers such as cleome, zinnias, sunflowers, and tithonia. For propagation, though, I also like using techniques such as dividing, saving bulbs, layering, rooting, etc. Not for veggies, of course, but for flowers and woody plants. To confess the truth, this next season I may try growing out seeds I've saved from this wonderful dual purpose squash we grew from a little brown paper bag of unmarked seed this past season. They were fairly isolated, more or less, sort of, except for this nyeh summer squash about 10 m away (8? 6?...)...I don't have my hopes up but I can't help myself. Yow! It's a great squash - sort of reminds me of Floridor, the terrific golden zucchini from Johnny's, except that it looks more acorn-squash like, colored gold and green. It is a good summer squash but cures like a nice winter squash, bush growth habit, laughs at borers, produces all summer long and
into fall. We're still eating 'em, and they are so pretty we have a bunch on the kitchen windowsill. So, I hope it works.
On the poison ivy, don't chemically intervene now - the plant isn't actively growing, and it won't do any good. I'd stay away from it right now, personally - the sap can be incredibly toxic and damaging! Be very careful! Even a tiny droplet on your face will be cause for major regrets and a likely trip to the doc. When the plant begins growing in the spring, there are a number of ways to get rid of it, but at risk of my organic credentials, this may be a job for herbicide. The problem with petrochemicals is, in part, the way Americans use them, spraying everywhere willy-nilly or broadcasting high N fertilizer with no regard for soil health. Like most everything, though, these products occasionally may be helpful under limited and controlled circumstances, the way you might reluctantly opt for radiation or chemotherapy as an unpleasant but necessary way to treat an otherwise-fatal tumor.
A massive poison ivy vine growing where kids play is one example. Toxicodendron radicans is a native plant with wildlife edible fruits and beautiful fall color (http://www.usna.usda.gov/PhotoGallery/FallFoliage/FallFoliage03.html. bottom of the page), but it is about as desirable in a family-friendly urban community garden as a grizzly bear.
My suggestion would be to contact your friendly local Cooperative Extension agent and ask that they or an experienced Master Gardener volunteer, or a Parks Dept crew, remove the plant for you. If I had the job, I'd probably wait until the plant was actively growing in the spring, cut the stem (or cut out a big chunk) and _immediately_ paint it (with a paint brush) with undiluted 'Brush-B-Gone' (the active chemical is tryclopyr, http://extoxnet.orst.edu/pips/triclopy.htm). (Cuttting the stem may be more practical, since you can also remove vines and leaves where kids will touch, but a slice helps the chemical move into the plant - be careful not to splash any on the truck of the tree). Glyphosate (Roundup) can also be used this way, but is not as effective, and you'll need to wait longer before the plant is is the optimum growth stage to treat it. Either way, be ready to retreat as it grows back, at least once or twice, though you may be able to simply
keep cutting without chemical. Sara Stein, in Planting Noah's Garden, has a good description of this technique using Roundup, her last resort intervention when dealing with invasive exotic plants that are strangling out a native ecosystem.
The non-nozzlehead alternative is waiting until the ground is moist and digging it out with pick and shovel, being very very careful to protect yourself (long pants, long good gloves, wash clothes separately). If you cover the area with a "smother mulch" of cardboard or newspaper covered with 6 in + of bark, leaves, what-have-you organic mulch, you can starve it out. It will want to grow back, though, from every little chunk of root you miss.
Whatever you do, don't burn the plant. For obvious reasons - I've heard of people dying from inhaling the smoke.
Good luck!
Don Boekelheide
Charlotte NC
http://urbanministrygarden.wordpress.com
----- Original Message ----
From: "community_garden-request at list.communitygarden.org" <community_garden-request at list.communitygarden.org>
To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 7:54:39 PM
Subject: Community_garden Digest, Vol 331, Issue 3
Send Community_garden mailing list submissions to
community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
community_garden-request at list.communitygarden.org
You can reach the person managing the list at
community_garden-owner at list.communitygarden.org
When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
than "Re: Contents of Community_garden digest..."
Today's Topics:
1. Detroit considers sale of City's small parks (Pohl-Kosbau, Leslie)
2. Re: pumpkins (yarrow at sfo.com)
3. Re: Detroit considers sale of City's small parks (Steven Garrett)
4. how to deal with poison ivy (Kuberek, Morgen)
5. Re: Detroit considers sale of City's small parks (Diana Liu)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:55:06 -0800
From: "Pohl-Kosbau, Leslie" <PKLESLIE at ci.portland.or.us>
Subject: [Community_garden] Detroit considers sale of City's small
parks
To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Message-ID: <6BEE725FFB29F44E919CFFC94A7801D31A4D8C at cityemail3b>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/29parks.html
This is an article about Detroit's parks that the City is considering for
sale. Community gardens and greening organizations could help for the short
and the long term to keep these treasures for the people of Detroit through
use as gardens, farms, orchards, or as community parks through community
participation and a little help. Could ACGA write to the City of Detroit?
Could other organizations pitch in? We know the research about gardens and
green space.
Leslie Pohl-Kosbau
Portland Community Gardens
With thanks to Carolyn Q. Lee from Portland Parks for finding this.
Detroit Considers Sale of City's Small Parks
Save for a rusty, seatless swing set, the Brinket-Hibbard Playlot resembles
many vacant lots pockmarking Detroit's hardscrabble east side.
Fabrizio Costantini for The New York Times
Patricia Scott, 59, grew up playing on hobbyhorses in the Brinket-Hibbard
Playlot, one of the parks proposed for sale.
Looking across Hibbard Street at what is left of her childhood park,
Patricia Scott, whose family lives in the only home remaining on the block,
recalled better days.
"There were nine of us kids, and I can remember how we used to have fun over
there, when there was a sandbox and some hobbyhorses, and I think a seesaw,"
said Ms. Scott, 56. "The way it is now, I think it's pitiful."
Detroit's own assessment of the park is similarly grim, according to a
recent report, which said, "Except for an old swing set frame, this appears
to be another vacant lot in a neighborhood of many vacant lots."
Now, some city officials are wondering, Would you like to buy it?
The Brinket-Hibbard playground is one of about 90 municipal parks - mostly
small play spaces - that the city of Detroit is considering putting up for
sale under a contentious proposal that seeks to condense and consolidate
park space and resources in thriving areas. The city would use the money
earned from any sales to maintain and possibly expand parks in parts of the
city that are more densely populated than, say, areas like the one around
Hibbard Street.
The Recreation Department's master plan calls the proposal "park
repositioning," which officials promote as a clear-eyed way to look at
necessary downsizing, a way to align park space with the significant
demographic shifts over the last half-century in Detroit, which has lost
about a million people since 1950.
But critics say it could further hurt downtrodden areas where parks are
equally appreciated, and that green space is too precious to be bartered for
money.
"They call some of these parks 'surplus,'" said City Councilwoman JoAnn
Watson, an opponent of the plan, "but I don't know what the heck that means
because there is no such thing as a surplus of something that is necessary
for the good and welfare of the community. The very concept of selling off
public parkland in somebody's hope to address a one-time money crunch is not
something you do as a big city. We have to protect these parks for future
generations."
Some proponents of the parks say that eliminating a park in a declining
neighborhood would make a resurgence much harder.
"It could be a case of penny wise, pound foolish," said Abe Kadushin of
Kadushin Associates, an architecture firm that does a lot of work in
Detroit. "I understand the need to make money, if it's an asset that's
valuable and the city can dispose of it. But it may not be the wisest thing
in the long run."
The proposal seems to have stalled in the City Council's Neighborhood and
Community Services Committee, whose chairwoman is Ms. Watson. But the
administration of Mayor Kwame M. Kilpatrick
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/kwame_m_kilpat
rick/index.html?inline=nyt-per> plans to pursue it, possibly along with
other options like neighborhood or corporate sponsorships. Though with more
than 300 parks - 40 percent of which are in poor condition - sales to
developers or other for-profit entities could be most beneficial.
If private buyers emerge for most of the parks in question, the city
estimates it can raise $8.1 million from selling the land (about 124 acres)
and more than $5 million a year in tax revenue, while saving hundreds of
thousands of dollars on maintenance.
"It's an opportunity to look at where we can put parks closer to people,"
said James Canning, a city spokesman. "We've constantly looked for ways to
make government more efficient, and we see this whole idea of possibly
repositioning parks as promoting an increased quality of life for those
living in our neighborhoods."
Some experts say the idea makes sense. While many cities and states are
preoccupied by figuring out how to grow, several, like Detroit and New
Orleans, are grappling with how to shrink, an alternative that is rarely
pleasant. Recently, a melee erupted when the New Orleans City Council voted
to demolish four public housing projects (to be replaced by fewer units for
poor people).
Eric Dueweke, a lecturer in urban planning at the University of Michigan
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/univers
ity_of_michigan/index.html?inline=nyt-org> who studies Detroit, said the
city had lost so many people that it needed fewer parks. "When the
neighborhoods were dense," Mr. Dueweke said, "it made sense to have a pocket
park in your neighborhood. When the neighborhood is not dense, it really is
questionable about whether it's a good idea."
About 90,000 parcels, he said, or about a quarter of the lots in the city,
are vacant. "It's not like we're this concrete jungle," Mr. Dueweke said,
"where we need every inch of green space."
Financial pressures are forcing cities to make difficult decisions.
"When you have a city that's really struggling with unemployment and an
eroding tax base, you can't maintain everything, you have to be strategic
about what you put your money into," Mr. Dueweke said. "And I think most
people would rather see the city put resources into the major parks that
most people use."
The executive director of the National Recreation and Park Association, John
Thorner, urged caution in the possible sale of parks.
"Sometimes it become a self-fulfilling prophesy, a city doesn't take care of
a park, and so it's not used," Mr. Thorner said. "And then they close the
park down because it wasn't used."
Mr. Canning said Detroit made improvements to 11 parks this year, and spent
$16 million to renovate a major recreation center. In 2006, he said, $18.5
million was invested in two new recreation centers, and 18 parks were
improved around the city.
But park officials say the city has more park space than it can reasonably
maintain.
The Sylvester-Field Playlot, also slated for possible sale, has a flagpole,
some old monkey-bar-type equipment and two swing sets with dangling rusted
chains and only one seat. In some places the park's wire fence is bent to
the ground. Four discarded tires sit just outside it. Next to the park is a
house with bricks missing from one side. A small church is on a facing
corner; an abandoned house on another.
These days few children live in the neighborhood, said Milford Eley, 60, a
retired laborer who has lived near the park for seven years. Still, Mr. Eley
would hate to see the park disappear.
"Parks give the neighborhood a countryside effect," he said. "It attracts
the squirrels, even a few pheasants. It's nice. It makes the place livable.
And now the city wants to sell these? My question is, To who, and for what?"
Susan Saulny reported from Chicago. Mary Chapman contributed reporting from
Detroit, and Catrin Einhorn from Chicago
------------------------------
Message: 2
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 11:22:17 -0800
From: yarrow at sfo.com
Subject: Re: [Community_garden] pumpkins
To: "Alliums" <garlicgrower at green-logic.com>,
<community_garden at list.communitygarden.org>
Message-ID: <f06110402c3a193d24615@[66.81.78.201]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
Yup. Every year, I've had a different squash plant volunteer in a
different spot in my garden, and every year, it's been the biggest
plant with the fewest problems and often the best-tasting squash. I
still plant others from seed, but I also welcome the volunteer.
Tanya
At 11:32 AM -0500 1/2/08, Alliums wrote:
,,,,>I'm finding that while my stuff doesn't "breed true" if I save
the seeds of
>veggies that perform as I want them (pest resistance, taste, length of
>storage), even if the veggies they produce don't always LOOK the same, they
>are a heck of a lot more reliable than some of the heirlooms I've planted in
>the past.
>
>Now, this just plays havoc if you're growing to sell, as ESPECIALLY with the
>squash, you can get some really weird looking results. But if you are just
>growing to eat, I've found that by creating your own landrace, you can get
>reliable and when it comes to pest resistance, as an organic grower, I
>really like reliable.
------------------------------
Message: 3
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 12:41:36 -0800 (PST)
From: Steven Garrett <geografood at yahoo.com>
Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Detroit considers sale of City's small
parks
To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Message-ID: <693285.46404.qm at web52411.mail.re2.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Folks in Detroit may want to consider what Seattle did. They passed an initiative to permanently preserve parkland, i.e., ban its sale by the city. The initiative was 42 and the following ordinance is 118477 and can be found at: http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=&s2=&s3=&s4=118477&s5=&Sect4=and&l=20&Sect2=THESON&Sect3=PLURON&Sect5=CBOR1&Sect6=HITOFF&d=CBOR&p=1&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fcbor1.htm&r=1&f=G
Steven M. Garrett
Doctoral Candidate, Geography
Lecturer, Urban Studies
University of Washington Tacoma
----- Original Message ----
From: "Pohl-Kosbau, Leslie" <PKLESLIE at ci.portland.or.us>
To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 11:55:06 AM
Subject: [Community_garden] Detroit considers sale of City's small parks
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/29parks.html
This is an article about Detroit's parks that the City is considering
for
sale. Community gardens and greening organizations could help for the
short
and the long term to keep these treasures for the people of Detroit
through
use as gardens, farms, orchards, or as community parks through
community
participation and a little help. Could ACGA write to the City of
Detroit?
Could other organizations pitch in? We know the research about gardens
and
green space.
Leslie Pohl-Kosbau
Portland Community Gardens
With thanks to Carolyn Q. Lee from Portland Parks for finding this.
Detroit Considers Sale of City's Small Parks
Save for a rusty, seatless swing set, the Brinket-Hibbard Playlot
resembles
many vacant lots pockmarking Detroit's hardscrabble east side.
Fabrizio Costantini for The New York Times
Patricia Scott, 59, grew up playing on hobbyhorses in the
Brinket-Hibbard
Playlot, one of the parks proposed for sale.
Looking across Hibbard Street at what is left of her childhood park,
Patricia Scott, whose family lives in the only home remaining on the
block,
recalled better days.
"There were nine of us kids, and I can remember how we used to have fun
over
there, when there was a sandbox and some hobbyhorses, and I think a
seesaw,"
said Ms. Scott, 56. "The way it is now, I think it's pitiful."
Detroit's own assessment of the park is similarly grim, according to a
recent report, which said, "Except for an old swing set frame, this
appears
to be another vacant lot in a neighborhood of many vacant lots."
Now, some city officials are wondering, Would you like to buy it?
The Brinket-Hibbard playground is one of about 90 municipal parks -
mostly
small play spaces - that the city of Detroit is considering putting up
for
sale under a contentious proposal that seeks to condense and
consolidate
park space and resources in thriving areas. The city would use the
money
earned from any sales to maintain and possibly expand parks in parts of
the
city that are more densely populated than, say, areas like the one
around
Hibbard Street.
The Recreation Department's master plan calls the proposal "park
repositioning," which officials promote as a clear-eyed way to look at
necessary downsizing, a way to align park space with the significant
demographic shifts over the last half-century in Detroit, which has
lost
about a million people since 1950.
But critics say it could further hurt downtrodden areas where parks are
equally appreciated, and that green space is too precious to be
bartered for
money.
"They call some of these parks 'surplus,'" said City Councilwoman JoAnn
Watson, an opponent of the plan, "but I don't know what the heck that
means
because there is no such thing as a surplus of something that is
necessary
for the good and welfare of the community. The very concept of selling
off
public parkland in somebody's hope to address a one-time money crunch
is not
something you do as a big city. We have to protect these parks for
future
generations."
Some proponents of the parks say that eliminating a park in a declining
neighborhood would make a resurgence much harder.
"It could be a case of penny wise, pound foolish," said Abe Kadushin of
Kadushin Associates, an architecture firm that does a lot of work in
Detroit. "I understand the need to make money, if it's an asset that's
valuable and the city can dispose of it. But it may not be the wisest
thing
in the long run."
The proposal seems to have stalled in the City Council's Neighborhood
and
Community Services Committee, whose chairwoman is Ms. Watson. But the
administration of Mayor Kwame M. Kilpatrick
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/kwame_m_kilpat
rick/index.html?inline=nyt-per> plans to pursue it, possibly along with
other options like neighborhood or corporate sponsorships. Though with
more
than 300 parks - 40 percent of which are in poor condition - sales to
developers or other for-profit entities could be most beneficial.
If private buyers emerge for most of the parks in question, the city
estimates it can raise $8.1 million from selling the land (about 124
acres)
and more than $5 million a year in tax revenue, while saving hundreds
of
thousands of dollars on maintenance.
"It's an opportunity to look at where we can put parks closer to
people,"
said James Canning, a city spokesman. "We've constantly looked for ways
to
make government more efficient, and we see this whole idea of possibly
repositioning parks as promoting an increased quality of life for those
living in our neighborhoods."
Some experts say the idea makes sense. While many cities and states are
preoccupied by figuring out how to grow, several, like Detroit and New
Orleans, are grappling with how to shrink, an alternative that is
rarely
pleasant. Recently, a melee erupted when the New Orleans City Council
voted
to demolish four public housing projects (to be replaced by fewer units
for
poor people).
Eric Dueweke, a lecturer in urban planning at the University of
Michigan
<http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/organizations/u/univers
ity_of_michigan/index.html?inline=nyt-org> who studies Detroit, said
the
city had lost so many people that it needed fewer parks. "When the
neighborhoods were dense," Mr. Dueweke said, "it made sense to have a
pocket
park in your neighborhood. When the neighborhood is not dense, it
really is
questionable about whether it's a good idea."
About 90,000 parcels, he said, or about a quarter of the lots in the
city,
are vacant. "It's not like we're this concrete jungle," Mr. Dueweke
said,
"where we need every inch of green space."
Financial pressures are forcing cities to make difficult decisions.
"When you have a city that's really struggling with unemployment and an
eroding tax base, you can't maintain everything, you have to be
strategic
about what you put your money into," Mr. Dueweke said. "And I think
most
people would rather see the city put resources into the major parks
that
most people use."
The executive director of the National Recreation and Park Association,
John
Thorner, urged caution in the possible sale of parks.
"Sometimes it become a self-fulfilling prophesy, a city doesn't take
care of
a park, and so it's not used," Mr. Thorner said. "And then they close
the
park down because it wasn't used."
Mr. Canning said Detroit made improvements to 11 parks this year, and
spent
$16 million to renovate a major recreation center. In 2006, he said,
$18.5
million was invested in two new recreation centers, and 18 parks were
improved around the city.
But park officials say the city has more park space than it can
reasonably
maintain.
The Sylvester-Field Playlot, also slated for possible sale, has a
flagpole,
some old monkey-bar-type equipment and two swing sets with dangling
rusted
chains and only one seat. In some places the park's wire fence is bent
to
the ground. Four discarded tires sit just outside it. Next to the park
is a
house with bricks missing from one side. A small church is on a facing
corner; an abandoned house on another.
These days few children live in the neighborhood, said Milford Eley,
60, a
retired laborer who has lived near the park for seven years. Still, Mr.
Eley
would hate to see the park disappear.
"Parks give the neighborhood a countryside effect," he said. "It
attracts
the squirrels, even a few pheasants. It's nice. It makes the place
livable.
And now the city wants to sell these? My question is, To who, and for
what?"
Susan Saulny reported from Chicago. Mary Chapman contributed reporting
from
Detroit, and Catrin Einhorn from Chicago
_______________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and
to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
To post an e-mail to the list:
community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080102/aff2354a/attachment.html
------------------------------
Message: 4
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:15:20 -0500
From: "Kuberek, Morgen" <morgen.kuberek at chpcolumbus.org>
Subject: [Community_garden] how to deal with poison ivy
To: <community_garden at list.communitygarden.org>
Message-ID:
<BD740BD9F37283419984006A73087096010D22A5 at exchange.CHPNT.local>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
Hi there-
I'm a fairly new member of the listserv and haven't posted anything
before, but am always inspired by the amount of activity generated here.
I have a question about poison ivy that some of you may be able to
answer. As part of my job, I've been assigned to develop a community
greenspace in a somewhat distressed neighborhood in Columbus, Ohio. I'm
heartened to hear about all of your positive experiences in areas like
these. I'm very much interested in sustainability, and the role that
community gardens and greenspaces can play, but I admit that I don't
know very much about gardening (my experience is limited to the
container gardens on my apartment balcony). I'm trying to get up to
speed quickly, as you can imagine.
We hope to have several solid volunteers by the spring time, but before
I can get anyone out at the site, I have a major poison ivy problem to
manage. We have one electrical pole with so much poison ivy on it that
you could mistake it for a tree ( I am calling the power company about
that one), but we also have poison ivy just generally throughout the
site and the neighboring yard.
Does anyone know the best way to get rid of the poison ivy this winter
before volunteers get out there? Is there an organic herbicide that I
should consider? Do I have to dig up the site or is there a spray
application? What if it snows after the application? How long before
planting of the other plants would I need to do this (in other words,
would it's presence in the soil kill the other plants?)
Thanks for all your help. I'm hoping to clear this up before it causes
a delay in the start of our project.
Morgen Kuberek
Americorps Member
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080102/2b3c71a0/attachment.html
------------------------------
Message: 5
Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2008 16:54:43 -0800 (PST)
From: Diana Liu <diana1127 at sbcglobal.net>
Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Detroit considers sale of City's small
parks
To: Steven Garrett <sgarrett at u.washington.edu>,
community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Cc: Heng Lam Foong <henglam.foong at tpl.org>
Message-ID: <925018.78606.qm at web82215.mail.mud.yahoo.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
They might also want to check with Trust for Public Land. www.tpl.org They might be able to help. My understanding that they help communities and non-profit organizations to purchase land and with the transaction. These are usually big size properties though. However, since a lot of them have legal backgrounds, they might be able to help and perhaps draft letters and legislations?
Steven Garrett <geografood at yahoo.com> wrote: Folks in Detroit may want to consider what Seattle did. They passed an initiative to permanently preserve parkland, i.e., ban its sale by the city. The initiative was 42 and the following ordinance is 118477 and can be found at: http://clerk.ci.seattle.wa.us/~scripts/nph-brs.exe?s1=&s2=&s3=&s4=118477&s5=&Sect4=and&l=20&Sect2=THESON&Sect3=PLURON&Sect5=CBOR1&Sect6=HITOFF&d=CBOR&p=1&u=%2F%7Epublic%2Fcbor1.htm&r=1&f=G
Steven M. Garrett
Doctoral Candidate, Geography
Lecturer, Urban Studies
University of Washington Tacoma
----- Original Message ----
From: "Pohl-Kosbau, Leslie"
To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Sent: Wednesday, January 2, 2008 11:55:06 AM
Subject: [Community_garden] Detroit considers sale of City's small parks
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/29/us/29parks.html
This is an article about Detroit's parks that the City is considering
for
sale. Community gardens and greening organizations could help for the
short
and the long term to keep these treasures for the people of Detroit
through
use as gardens, farms, orchards, or as community parks through
community
participation and a little help. Could ACGA write to the City of
Detroit?
Could other organizations pitch in? We know the research about gardens
and
green space.
Leslie Pohl-Kosbau
Portland Community Gardens
With thanks to Carolyn Q. Lee from Portland Parks for finding this.
Detroit Considers Sale of City's Small Parks
Save for a rusty, seatless swing set, the Brinket-Hibbard Playlot
resembles
many vacant lots pockmarking Detroit's hardscrabble east side.
Fabrizio Costantini for The New York Times
Patricia Scott, 59, grew up playing on hobbyhorses in the
Brinket-Hibbard
Playlot, one of the parks proposed for sale.
Looking across Hibbard Street at what is left of her childhood park,
Patricia Scott, whose family lives in the only home remaining on the
block,
recalled better days.
"There were nine of us kids, and I can remember how we used to have fun
over
there, when there was a sandbox and some hobbyhorses, and I think a
seesaw,"
said Ms. Scott, 56. "The way it is now, I think it's pitiful."
Detroit's own assessment of the park is similarly grim, according to a
recent report, which said, "Except for an old swing set frame, this
appears
to be another vacant lot in a neighborhood of many vacant lots."
Now, some city officials are wondering, Would you like to buy it?
The Brinket-Hibbard playground is one of about 90 municipal parks -
mostly
small play spaces - that the city of Detroit is considering putting up
for
sale under a contentious proposal that seeks to condense and
consolidate
park space and resources in thriving areas. The city would use the
money
earned from any sales to maintain and possibly expand parks in parts of
the
city that are more densely populated than, say, areas like the one
around
Hibbard Street.
The Recreation Department's master plan calls the proposal "park
repositioning," which officials promote as a clear-eyed way to look at
necessary downsizing, a way to align park space with the significant
demographic shifts over the last half-century in Detroit, which has
lost
about a million people since 1950.
But critics say it could further hurt downtrodden areas where parks are
equally appreciated, and that green space is too precious to be
bartered for
money.
"They call some of these parks 'surplus,'" said City Councilwoman JoAnn
Watson, an opponent of the plan, "but I don't know what the heck that
means
because there is no such thing as a surplus of something that is
necessary
for the good and welfare of the community. The very concept of selling
off
public parkland in somebody's hope to address a one-time money crunch
is not
something you do as a big city. We have to protect these parks for
future
generations."
Some proponents of the parks say that eliminating a park in a declining
neighborhood would make a resurgence much harder.
"It could be a case of penny wise, pound foolish," said Abe Kadushin of
Kadushin Associates, an architecture firm that does a lot of work in
Detroit. "I understand the need to make money, if it's an asset that's
valuable and the city can dispose of it. But it may not be the wisest
thing
in the long run."
The proposal seems to have stalled in the City Council's Neighborhood
and
Community Services Committee, whose chairwoman is Ms. Watson. But the
administration of Mayor Kwame M. Kilpatrick
rick/index.html?inline=nyt-per> plans to pursue it, possibly along with
other options like neighborhood or corporate sponsorships. Though with
more
than 300 parks - 40 percent of which are in poor condition - sales to
developers or other for-profit entities could be most beneficial.
If private buyers emerge for most of the parks in question, the city
estimates it can raise $8.1 million from selling the land (about 124
acres)
and more than $5 million a year in tax revenue, while saving hundreds
of
thousands of dollars on maintenance.
"It's an opportunity to look at where we can put parks closer to
people,"
said James Canning, a city spokesman. "We've constantly looked for ways
to
make government more efficient, and we see this whole idea of possibly
repositioning parks as promoting an increased quality of life for those
living in our neighborhoods."
Some experts say the idea makes sense. While many cities and states are
preoccupied by figuring out how to grow, several, like Detroit and New
Orleans, are grappling with how to shrink, an alternative that is
rarely
pleasant. Recently, a melee erupted when the New Orleans City Council
voted
to demolish four public housing projects (to be replaced by fewer units
for
poor people).
Eric Dueweke, a lecturer in urban planning at the University of
Michigan
ity_of_michigan/index.html?inline=nyt-org> who studies Detroit, said
the
city had lost so many people that it needed fewer parks. "When the
neighborhoods were dense," Mr. Dueweke said, "it made sense to have a
pocket
park in your neighborhood. When the neighborhood is not dense, it
really is
questionable about whether it's a good idea."
About 90,000 parcels, he said, or about a quarter of the lots in the
city,
are vacant. "It's not like we're this concrete jungle," Mr. Dueweke
said,
"where we need every inch of green space."
Financial pressures are forcing cities to make difficult decisions.
"When you have a city that's really struggling with unemployment and an
eroding tax base, you can't maintain everything, you have to be
strategic
about what you put your money into," Mr. Dueweke said. "And I think
most
people would rather see the city put resources into the major parks
that
most people use."
The executive director of the National Recreation and Park Association,
John
Thorner, urged caution in the possible sale of parks.
"Sometimes it become a self-fulfilling prophesy, a city doesn't take
care of
a park, and so it's not used," Mr. Thorner said. "And then they close
the
park down because it wasn't used."
Mr. Canning said Detroit made improvements to 11 parks this year, and
spent
$16 million to renovate a major recreation center. In 2006, he said,
$18.5
million was invested in two new recreation centers, and 18 parks were
improved around the city.
But park officials say the city has more park space than it can
reasonably
maintain.
The Sylvester-Field Playlot, also slated for possible sale, has a
flagpole,
some old monkey-bar-type equipment and two swing sets with dangling
rusted
chains and only one seat. In some places the park's wire fence is bent
to
the ground. Four discarded tires sit just outside it. Next to the park
is a
house with bricks missing from one side. A small church is on a facing
corner; an abandoned house on another.
These days few children live in the neighborhood, said Milford Eley,
60, a
retired laborer who has lived near the park for seven years. Still, Mr.
Eley
would hate to see the park disappear.
"Parks give the neighborhood a countryside effect," he said. "It
attracts
the squirrels, even a few pheasants. It's nice. It makes the place
livable.
And now the city wants to sell these? My question is, To who, and for
what?"
Susan Saulny reported from Chicago. Mary Chapman contributed reporting
from
Detroit, and Catrin Einhorn from Chicago
_______________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of
ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and
to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
To post an e-mail to the list:
community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription:
http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
____________________________________________________________________________________
Be a better friend, newshound, and
know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080102/aff2354a/attachment.html
_______________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
Kindness in words creates confidence.
Kindness in thinking creates profoundness.
Kindness in giving creates love.
- Lao Tzu
~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~
-------------- next part --------------
An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080102/44dffaf1/attachment.html
------------------------------
_______________________________________________
The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org
To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
End of Community_garden Digest, Vol 331, Issue 3
************************************************
More information about the Community_garden
mailing list