[Community_garden] Railroad ties???

Tue Mar 18 12:09:06 EDT 2008

LOL!

I didn't know he was doing that, should have scrolled down past his lawn flamingos and bottle tree (I do like bottle trees).

Anyway, Mike, your points are well taken. I also especially appreciate your suggestion to, when in doubt, consider dropping back to flat.

So, if one wants beds, first try blocks and rocks, but the easiest solution may be to garden flatt (and scruggs)?

Don

----- Original Message ----
From: Mike McGrath <MikeMcG at PTD.net>
To: Don Boekelheide <dboekelheide at yahoo.com>; community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Cc: felder at felderrushing.net; harristakoma at erols.com
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:24:58 AM
Subject: Railroad ties???

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Yikes! They are moy moy toxic!
    Old railroad ties are treated with 
penta and/or creosote; two of the only substances that even Republican 
scientists agree cause cancer! I like Felder a lot, and he can PERSONALLY take 
the risks he chooses, but we shouldn't deliberately bring cancer into community 
gardens.
    (C'mon Don--what about old tires? Or 
maybe depleted uranium? That stuff holds up forever!)

If it comes to that, drop back to flat!

            ---McG

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From:   Don 
  Boekelheide 
  To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org   
  Cc: felder at felderrushing.net ; harristakoma at erols.com ; Mike McGrath 
  Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008 11:04   AM
  Subject: Re: Sandbag that garden! - And   retreads...

    Hey,   all,

Much as I hate to admit it, Mike's right - I mean, it is obvious,   the first thing I did at Urban Ministry was put in some...that's right ...   raised beds. Round jobbies made of masonry not wooden boxes, but still. You   already know my official reasons, to give tired homeless folks a place to sit   and rest, and and having to garden in an area of compacted crappy soil without   drainage, but reading Mike's post I realised there was another factor - I   needed instant "something to look at" aka "success". Now, it isn't sustainable   gardening success, that only comes with years of daily practice doing   gardening. Just like meditation (the two are closely related, at least in my   mind). But boxes, planters, whatever ,do give you something to show the   community, the folks, and the funders. We got those beds in place in a couple   weeks, stuck in some pansies, put up homemade prayer banners on conduit poles   10 ft tall to catch the wind, and when
 'official' opening day came the 'garden   program' was a smash hit.

But I still don't like boxes. Treasure of the   Sierra Madre attitude: "Boxes? We don't need no stinkin' boxes..." But I'll   use 'em when they can help.

But be careful, folks. Three things to   consider: 

* Watch the budget, since wood and fill soil can both get   very expensive very fast. A local well-heeled, well-meaning non-profit just   burned up $3000 to build six modest boxo beds at a single school and fill them   with purchased soil. That's three !#@$% GRAND! That's enough to fund my   program for months!

* Don't make the box the end when it is really only   the beginning. All the ACGA stuff about working with people and building   community, and all the hort stuff that garden-types like me rant on about -   you've got to pay attention to all that. Watering. Weeding. Planting with the   seasons. Who will do the work? Also, keeping fill/potting soils fertile and   healthy can be a challenge. Ask yourself how the box will look under a worst   case scenario. If you aren't pretty sure you can avoid that, I'd avoid the box   (not the garden - just the box).

And think about squares. Boxes are   little houses, squared off extensions of our built environment. Meanwhile,   nature curves and dances. Boxes are purchased. Nature can't be purchased. It's   a question of deeper aesthetics, and how much our garden design is based on   fear of nature and a desire to control it and put it in a box, as opposed to   embracing and celebrating the natural world. I'm not saying either approach is   right or wrong, but suggesting that it makes sense to stay ever mindful of   wider perspectives in our rush to accomplish things, and make the world a   better place through our particular garden projects.

(btw, building   boxes to the golden section rectangle/Fibonacci sequence dimensions strikes me   as monumental silliness, though that's in vogue right now. At a recent garden   conference, I heard a garden writer I otherwise much admire go wandering into   this swamp - and all the slides in her PowerPoint were sized 1:1.618.   Inspiring. Cosmic. I just hope she runs into Pogo in that swamp, before it's   too late).

Now - the real reason for this post is that I forgot a   very important container option. After my kids got on the schoolbus early this   morning, an old red pickup with a shotgun cross the back window and a NASCAR   bumper sticker came cruising through the neighborhood, looking for me. They   were going to take away my Dixie ID and either make me leave Carolina or wear   a Yankee button on my baseball cap. Why? I neglected to mention old tires.   They are a traditional planter material down here. Sure, they have some   problems, but what else are we going to do with them? If they are good enough   for Felder Rushing's planters, they're good enough for me. Check it out: http://www.felderrushing.net/frontyard.htm

Don
http://urbanministrygarden.wordpress.com

  -----   Original Message ----
From: Mike McGrath <MikeMcG at PTD.net>
To: Don   Boekelheide <dboekelheide at yahoo.com>;   community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
Sent: Tuesday, March 18, 2008   10:07:51 AM
Subject: Sandbag that garden!

I disagree with my good   friend Don about the usefulness of raised beds. I 
find them to be a great   solution to crappy conditions. (And Don--a lot of 
those flat-earth   ancestors didn't make it past 35. And the Native Americans 
largely ate   what nature grew for them.)

BUT I want to thank Don for a great idea   mentioned later--raised beds framed 
by sandbags! You just need to bring   the empty bags to the site, then you can 
fill them with the crappy stuff   you're trying not to grow in. Bravo, Donnie 
Boy!~

(As Abbie Hoffman   once said, I will Steal This Tip!)

                                                        ---Mike   McG
----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Don Boekelheide" <dboekelheide at yahoo.com>
To:   <community_garden at list.communitygarden.org>
Sent:   Monday, March 17, 2008 9:36 PM
Subject: Re: [Community_garden] Trex or   other building material

> I'm afraid I too agree that, in my   experience, building boxes isn't 
> usually necessary for gardening   (even out in Colorado, admittedly a 
> challenging place in your higher,   drier areas).  I grant you that 
> containers made of anything -   wood, masonry, plastic, brick, clay, trex, 
> ferro-cement, cardboard,   old kids' plastic swimming pools, etc, etc - are 
> good in some special   circumstances for holding soil, improving drainage, 
> etc. They also   clearly define areas, which some folks prefer 
> aesthetically. But they   add an additional level of expense (sometimes, a 
> lot of expense) and   futzing, and come with a whole new set of problems 
> like potential   toxicity of some materials, rotting out, and maintenance. 
> And when   they are abandoned or go weedy - at a school, for instance, over 
> the   summer - they can look pretty awful and become a strong visual 
>   argument for why it makes no sense to fund or support garden   projects.
>
> So, are you _sure_ you don't just want to garden?   Have you considered 
> looking for a suitable spot for a community   garden, for instance? Save 
> some open space, build soil, etc. Work   together. Build community, not 
> little boxes (...on the hillside, as   Malvina used to sing...).
>
> If you are very sure, though, that   you want to make boxes, I agree that 
> masonry is a very useful option   to consider, rather than wood or trex. 
> I've used blocks very   successfully at Urban Ministry (where I mostly 
> needed something for   tired folks to sit on, but also in one particular 
> spot had horrible   drainage), and in other sites. The option from Lowes 
> Depot I like   best are 4x8x16  solid concrete blocks. If the project 
> doesn't   work out, these blocks are reasonably easy to remove, reform or 
>   recycle.
>
> Another option, if you are growing food, are "pillow   packs" made very 
> simply by filling big black plastic sacks with soil   mix. There are fancier 
> 'grow bags' that commercial nurseries use -   both these options might be 
> interesting under xeric conditions. They   won't win any beauty pagents and 
> plastic has all kinds of problems,   but I've seen them used very 
> successfully to produce quite a bit of   food.
>
> Last but not least, what are the local containers that   you have there 
> traditionally? What did the first settlers build with,   or the First 
> Nations peoples who were there before? How did they   garden? Rather than 
> start with boxes - and we all have garden books   and mags full of pics of 
> boxes to inspire us - why not, er, think   outside the box?
>
> Don
> http://urbanministrygarden.wordpress.com
> (I have   some pics of the Urban Ministry masonry beds on the blog, if you'd 
>   like to see. They are done with 'landscape' blocks with round edges, a   
> donation from a local  soils and mulch company, Blue   Max).
>
>
>
> From: community_garden-bounces at list.communitygarden.org
>   [mailto:community_garden-bounces at list.communitygarden.org]   On Behalf Of
> GivenTrees at aol.com
> Sent:   Monday, March 17, 2008 8:50 AM
> To: community_garden at list.communitygarden.org
>   Subject: [Community_garden] Trex or other building material
>
>   Hey all, I'm looking for material to build raised beds, cold    frames
> etc. to
> grow organic veggies in.  Trying NOT to   cut any trees  or use
> traditional
> lumber material.    I've always heard redwood was the best  wood to use,
> but   looking
> for alternatives.  I think there had been a    discussion here before
> about
> Trex, is there any leaching? Down   sides?  Alternatives? Suggestions?
> Thanks   Tina
>
>
>
>
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